2008-07-07

Zarathustra Test


One book that I've read numerous times and one that I found myself going back to often, even casually, is Also Spracht Zarathustra in my well worn, dog eared and much scribbled on and underlined copy of The Portable Nietzsche. To give a ridiculously short synopsis, our protagonist, Zarathustra, is a man of morals and wisdom who at first travels through the lands speaking with people. At first he's not liked, then after a period of solitude and returning finds he has followers but they don't necessarily get his points. He returns again to solitude and representatives of the world come to him, each leaders of sorts, who each in their way complain about their worlds and grasp minute nuggets of Zarathustra's wisdom yet still fail miserably to grasp it all. I bring this up because I think it's an amazing example of a character who could easily have enjoyed a higher status, tremendous respect from and influence on others, and become a god of sorts yet he keeps both his cynicism and intellectual honesty and rejects that to tell everyone they're all wrong and to get stuffed.

Now I think most people in such a situation would react differently. First, it's quite flattering to the ego to have people hanging on your every word and to applaud such words once you utter them. Before long as your celebrity grows, you become insulated by these people and start buying into the greatness of yourself which these people think exists. Eventually that can lead to a desire to extend your reach, increase your circle, and grow your power. Perhaps you call that manifest destiny. Power an influence are amazing things no doubt, and surely something that must be quite inebriating and satisfying for the leader or "prophet" and also something which can lead a person to perhaps do things they shouldn't, to engage in some of that old 'ends justify the means' fun, and cross over to demagoguery.

Why I bring this up is because I had my moment recently, but I found myself perhaps crossing the line. I ended up at a friend's house Saturday and later that evening there appeared some young pups, 20-24 year olds. One by one I had my opportunities to chat with them and I had my Zarathustra moments. First they scoffed at some of my comments but then little by little my "truth" was undeniable. Regardless of the topics - drinking, drugs, relationships, college, careers, voting, even demonstrating a point via air hockey, the precious little snowflakes hung on my every word. At that point, I started to cross the line. Now I didn't resort to deception like the Chaplain exposed recently. Everything I said I've said and argued here and many places, but I exploited people's states of mind and I essentially proselytized and butted in with my beliefs with the full intent to win hearts and minds.

One fella was quite distraught and throwing back drinks and it turned out the reason was his girlfriend (or wife, I can't remember) was pregnant. He expressed his fears that he couldn't handle it, that he wasn't ready, and that there's no way he could be a good dad. I explained to him that perhaps that's a sign that he would be a good dad, because often the ones who aren't don't take it seriously, don't doubt themselves, and then make a complete mess of things. If nothing else, he clearly cares about being a good dad, and that, imo, is worth a lot. I also explained to him that things in life don't wait to happen until you're ready. They happen and you deal with it the best you can, and that's it. Well then it happened, someone said the words, "maybe it was meant to be". Oh I suppose I could have casually dismissed that one, or simply ignored it, or maybe just quote the line the religious like "god helps those who help themselves" but no. Having a couple of people here, flushed with my success so far and seeing others start to close in, I raised my voice and went into prophet mode. I launched into there's no "meant to be", no divine providence, no personal guidance, no answering of prayers because there's no magic man in the sky so get over it. There was a little resistance, but it fell by the wayside quickly.

Now I can tell myself the intentions were good, that this guy and some of the others were newly charged with a sense of self confidence and purpose, and that I might have steered them away from a life of dependence and false hope in nonsense, but then I saw a quiet and uncomfortable looking girl who was wearing a cross necklace and I realized what an ass I was being. Clearly I dominated the conversation, and flushed with my new celebrity I pushed my opinions rather than discussing and debating them and maintaining an atmosphere where that was possible, where that sheepish girl could have expressed her views. Also, I was probably inebriated by the newly won followers more than the numerous drafts of Yuengling lager I had downed.

Although my experience was quite small and silly, I can sort of see how people can sort of slip into this solipsism, where you win supporters and flushed and surrounded by them you become over confident in your opinions and then proceed to push them on others. I think this clearly happens in Washington, it happens in Hollywood, it happens in religions and happens anywhere someone can rise and then exploit their position. The scariest ones are probably the ones who don't realize they're exploiting anything. You can lose your perspective when in this environment I think, and that's a dangerous thing. Many of us in the atheosphere challenge each other regularly. The Exterminator and others challenge me, I can challenge the Exterminator or others and we all keep each other sharp and honest. Without that, you can become a jackass like Mr. Virgina which Ric found, or our President who thinks torture ain't torture if we do it, or just launch into drunken pontification like me. We need to be challenged and to challenge each other and of course we need to surround ourselves with the kind of people who will challenge us and keep us honest. To paraphrase Zarathustra, 'were it not that those who seek to increase their number do so by adding zeroes behind them'.

So I failed the Zarathustra test. Perhaps I needed one of you there to keep me honest, or maybe you'd have gone along with me since you no doubt would have agreed with what I was saying (and you'd might be even more inebriated than me if we were going beer for beer you tiny people). Who knows? Interesting to consider, no? How would you handle the Zarathustra test? Maybe you have to take the test in order to actually know. Think about it while you enjoy a flash back video from when I was a young pup (embedding disabled, unfortunately).

20 comments:

The Exterminator said...

I think this was a great post.

I'll add one more thing. A person has to be aware of his or her own tendency to be a "prophet" in order to reject it. We here in this corner of the Atheosphere have gotten used to having our ideas challenged by one another. For instance, it's impossible for me to get too self-righteous -- or to take myself too seriously -- when I know that there are people I like and respect hovering around, ready to force me to justify my thinking. Just knowing that PhillyChief or dozens of others too numerous to mention are standing by to weigh in on what I write puts any potential grandiosity I might have into perspective.

On the other hand, religionists -- you knew I'd get back to them, right? -- don't care how other people respond. Each theist interprets his or her silly notions of the cosmos as "Truth." Many believers are "prophets," at least to themselves. (e.g., "I know Jesus personally, and he thinks ...")

In actuality, the cult of Christianity is not about Christ as a god or even as a prophet. It's about each individual being convinced that he or she is a prophet. Christ is merely the means by which to exalt oneself, and cut off any further criticism.

Spanish Inquisitor said...

In actuality, the cult of Christianity is not about Christ as a god or even as a prophet. It's about each individual being convinced that he or she is a prophet. Christ is merely the means by which to exalt oneself, and cut off any further criticism.

Is this, perhaps, why Christians tend to proselytize, are indeed compelled to do so, while it's hard to even get an atheist to admit he is one? They're possessed of themselves, not the Holy Spirit.

PhillyChief said...

Excellent point. They're arguing for their own self importance rather than what they claim they're arguing for, their religion. I do though think that many do drink the kool aid and believe that their ambitious drive is really just the holy spirit they're feeling.

Point is though, these folks rarely if ever venture out of their element. If they did, they could get called on their bullshit. They even might realize all on their own, like if they were to meet an atheist or gay people and see that not only don't they have horns and a pointy tail, but they're quite pleasant people. Staying insulated, they'll never know.

The Exterminator said...

Philly:
... not only don't they have horns and a pointy tail, but they're quite pleasant people.
Speak for yourself, pal.

PhillyChief said...

Watch it pal, I'll use my cult of personality on you! Beware my minions!

grumpylion said...

Look on the bright side - you didn't shoot anyone and you didn't get hit by divine lightning. Thus proving your point and ... crap, I forgot what I was going to say. Oh well, it was good whatever it was.

Cephus said...

A lot of Christians proselytize because they're trying to score points with the big boss upstairs, not because they really give a damn about anyone else. It's like how most Christians do charity work. They only do it when you're looking and they make sure they're very vocal about it. They just want to look good and up their social standing.

the chaplain said...

Excellent post. It's really easy to get overly enamored with ourselves. Every now and then, a call to reality and humility is good for the, er, soul.

John Evo said...

Philly said: The scariest ones are probably the ones who don't realize they're exploiting anything.

And you did realize it and, even for that poor wall-flower who was left unable to speak up, it's quite possible that you're one of the few she'll ever hear that from. It could be a good thing for her.

In any case, it's never a negative to hear ideas even if they are awful, and yours are not. So, I bless and consecrate your actions while drinking beer and expounding on reality.

Say 3 Hail Darwins and have another cerveza.

PhillyChief said...

I'm rather animated after a few beers.

Toby said...

I ended up at a friend's house Saturday and later that evening there appeared some young pups, 20-24 year olds

Wait a sec, are (however indirectly) referring to me as a “pup” ò_Ó!?

As for such situations where people are hanging on your every word, I find them to be more... uncomfortable then intoxicating as you describe them. I’m more the kind of person to react to what others claim, rather then the launch into a tirade myself. Could be because I’m immensely paranoid and thusly always make sure I don’t get side swiped, even in debates, and as such is very careful about claiming something as an absolute.

The works kind of people is the ones that do this as you describe, realize they’re doing it yet believe themselves to be justified in doing so because of whatever “greater cause” they happen to adhere to. Those are the people you need tocall out ASAP before they get to comfortable in the spotlight.

Besides, its always fun to poke hole into someone’s logic and watch their argument collapse like a house of cards.

PS: Your blog still freezes up my browser for like 30-40 seconds whenever I try to load it...

grumpylion said...

About that blog freeze thingie, I get a similar hangup here.

What kind of nefarious, evil, nasty thing are you doing?

PhillyChief said...

Toby: You're a pup if under 25. Some others around here might argue under 45, or higher.

The "evil" is wanting an aesthetic that Blogger has trouble supporting, and/or I have no technical knowledge to make work efficiently.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

I agree with Ex. God damned good post.

Then SI's observation about being full of themselves not the holy spirit is also spot on.

On the actions of christians though I think the majority of them do good works not to big note themselves but because they feel good doing it and get positive reinforcement.

yunshui said...

I'm with Evo - just because wallflower girl didn't feel up to challenging you doesn't mean you shouldn't challenge her. If I encounter someone who holds a different opinion to me and their argument is better (or even just more vociferously expressed) than mine, I would expect to at least examine my beliefs in more detail. If I don't feel strongly enough about my opinion to defend it, then I really need to take a closer look at why I hold that particular view. And hearing it from a person in a position of authority - albeit the authority of age, which I don't personally use as a yardstick for wisdom - makes it all the more necessary to re-examine what I think.

So I don't think you failed the test at all - she did. In many ways, I think you did A Good Thing. Well done.

John Evo said...

You da man, Yunshui! I love being agreed with lately. Mostly because I haven't heard a lot of agreement lately. I ain't no Zarathustra of the Atheosphere apparently.

Dale said...

Hey PhillyChief, great post. I thought you'd want to know it's included in Humanist Symposium 22 on my blog. There's another one there by you as well. Thanks!

PhillyChief said...

Thank you, Dale. I'll post a link.

And thanks Yunshui, but you see I get a tad animated in discussions, especially after a few beers. Size, speaking volume, passion and hands gesticulating wildly tend to allow me to dominate a discussion, and that's even without having a point. I don't try to use these things, they're just natural and a part of me, but I can see how such things could be used unscrupulously. I have to make conscious efforts not to dominate a discussion that way, or I should say let those things occur and thereby dominate a discussion. The points I raise should do that on their own, or else I'm simply a con man.

Christopher said...

Excellent post.

PhillyChief said...

Thanks, boss. What's up with your blogs being invite only? Trying to keep the rabble out? Making the rabble want to leave is half the fun. ;)