So how about a few new reality checks on the claimed values of religion and atheism? Well let's start with quite a huge claim, that atheism is a threat to civilization. Wow, that's pretty damning. So how does it check out? Well for starters, atheist nations are more peaceful. Is peace a threat to civilization? Well perhaps, if you think "civilization" means Christian dominance of every facet of life, which seems to be how that Catholic article is viewing civilization. So sure, I guess if that's civilization to you, then a peaceful, nonreligious society is surely a threat.
Then of course there's this ad suggesting that without believing in a god, people will kill each other. Now aside from the rather startling suggestion that such a belief is the only thing keeping these people in check, and the link earlier showing non-religious nations as actually being more peaceful, there is, sadly, the recent Murder of Dr. Tiller which was religiously motivated (and it should be mentioned that there were previous religiously motivated attempts to kill him, too). Add this to a long list of religiously motivated attacks on clinics and health care professionals (and patients) who've been attacked over the years. Ah, but that's different since it's abortion.
What about abortion? The religious make such extraordinary claims that it's murder, and that abortion is a result of a godless society lacking morals. Well what if I told you that women who went to private religious schools were more likely to have had an abortion? Huh? Well read about it here. Remarkable, no? The conclusion seems to be that social pressure outweighs supernatural pressure. Hmmm, so it's society which influences thoughts and actions. Interesting.
A quick look throughout history shows a surprising change (dare I say evolution?) of religious morality. How can that be if their holy books haven't changed? Ah, but interpretation changes, and what do you think influences interpretation? That's right, society. So you have the collective thinking of society, especially concerning morals, changing over time and influencing interpretations of "holy" morals. You also have societies who are nonreligious shown to be more peaceful. Add the facts that religious morals can inspire violence, and I think we have quite a reality check here. Far from being the necessary foundation for humanity, religion seems more like an anchor, a ball and chain which we've been dragging along behind us for eons, retarding our progress. Some places have been slowly wearing down the size of the ball, making progress ever slowly better whereas other places have gotten free and are running beautifully well.
2009-06-05
Reality check: religion v. atheism
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63 comments:
I liked being in China when I went there for a summer's travel a while back. Commie socialists are the nicest people in the world, at least on the surface. But, dammit, they're too nice, mostly egoless zombies. In fact, many atheist countries are socialist. The crux of that is in people lacking ambition. I'm not saying that atheism causes people to lose ambition, far from it, atheism is merely a lack of a belief in any gods. However, to compare the manners of people living in socialist countries to the manners of people living in the USA (excluding Chinese table manners, of course), is a dead duck argument. The thing is, people need to know how to say "fuck off" or "go to hell" to other people, it's an essential life skill. Come to think of it, that's exactly why the Chinese people were so glad to see me, because I show genuine emotion and it gets results henceforth setting a positive example for them. People don't need to flatter everybody else all the time, that's actually one of the main pitfalls of religion, complete cooperation between everybody all-the-time is mediocrity and lack of origional thought.
I don't think you've made a good case for proving that people in atheist, socialist countries lack ambition. Your experience in China might show that (I don't know), but Western Europeans, while socialist, and rather non-theistic (depending on the country) I don't think could really be called unmotivated.
religion seems more like an anchor, a ball and chain which we've been dragging along behind us for eons, retarding our progress.
I'm not sure about the anchor metaphor. Anchors are useful bits of equipment when a boat needs to be kept relatively still in the water.
The ball and chain metaphor, however, is very apt. The only use for a ball and chain is to keep someone imprisoned or enslaved. That's precisely what I think religion does for most, if not all, believers.
[kjeiq], good point. I suppose the difference is in whether people are self motivated or if they need religions or governments to motivate them ;)
Jackpot!
I'll agree that "religion" (like atheism) has often retarded progress, but, Christianity never did.
And, don't call that evangelical or Middle Ages horseshit Christianity, either, because it isn't!
So which sect (in which time period) then is your version of "real" Christianity?
MY version doesn't exist, okay? The LORD'S version is all that matters. Are you another one of those programmed evangelicals that whore after Rome, and/or Zionism?
Anyone that follows SCRIPTURE and NOT tradition, is a Christian.
The pure and simple faith of the apostles and the early church, is the ONLY TRUE way. That's the one I follow, and if you don't, well, I guess you know where you're headed...
Or, do I have to spell THAT out for you, as well?
Wow, you're pretty funny.
No, I'm not a programmed anything, least of all an evangelical.
I'm an atheist, so that's why I asked which sect you believed to be "real" Christianity.
Do you belong to a certain congregation or group?
Which interpretation of the Scriptures do you ascribe to? Which accounts of your apostles do you consider to be correct?
As for where I'm headed? Well I'm planning on attending the gay pride parade tomorrow and hang out with my friends and maybe go to a drag show. Where are you headed?
"Where are you headed?"
Not to any fag parade, I can tell you that. But, then, you only mentioned that to try and get a rise out of the old "fundie", didn't you?
I am a member of a certain denomination, however, my faith is based upon what I read in God's word. I don't lend my allegiance to any specific denominational hierarchy. I fellowship with those of like mind, and this particular group is the closest there is to the biblical model.
As for interpretations, there is only one, son. Christ's. There are different translations of the Bible... I prefer the King James. Surprised?
And, yes... you ARE programmed. You're a programmed humanist, Humanism being a construct of Socialism, itself, a spawn of Paganism.
ALL of the apostolic accounts are correct... especially where they counsel about participation in sexual deviancies.
I do like a good race, if you're not implying attending some function where limp-wristed nerds enjoy dressing up in women's clothing. Legitimate drag-racing has some interest to me.
Anything else?
So how do you know what Christ's interpretation is? He never wrote anything, and everything you have that is based on that character is second-hand at best. Are you aware that the KJV is full of inconsistent and bad translations that don't at all represent the already incorrect and greatly altered texts they were translated from, let alone the non-existent original manuscripts?
How can all the apostolic accounts be correct when they contradict each other?
I am totally unsurprised by your homophobia, and yes, I was trying to see whether you would expose your bigotry.
And you ought to try expanding your gender boundaries a bit. Trust me, it's fun and quite liberating.
Oh, don't ever think I'm AFRAID of any fag, my young sexually-confused friend! The term "phobic" is a misnomer, where I'm concerned.
If another man ever laid his hand on me for any reason other than self-defense or a brotherly clap on the back, he'd remember the experience with nothing other than remorse!
And, I don't intimidate or subscribe to the politically-correct CRAPOLA you and your goofy friends always label anyone with, that doesn't share your warped views, so save it for those with small minds that do. You and your ilk are the bigots, and you show it quite well in your bullying of civic officials in order to display your blasphemous and unholy behavior in wanton and unreserved public displays of debauchery.
You show it in your pressuring of secular and clerical officials in performing what is described laughingly as your "marriage" ceremonies, under threat of fine, imprisonment, or loss of employment or all. So much for freedom of thought and expression, items you freaks claim as essential in any democracy!
Also, Doofus, there is NO contradiction in scripture, unlike the contradiction that your preferred lifestyle shows toward anything natural and good. If there was anything lost in the translation, let it be revived in the unmistakeable context that I'm giving you, now, with regard to you and your aberrant lifestyle.
Anything NOT clear, there?
"Anything NOT clear, there?"
A whole hell of a lot, in fact, but it's clear you're not capable of thinking rationally (Quelle surprise).
YOU ought to know.
LOL Wow.
Did you really just pull the "I know you are, but what am I?!"
You figure it out... you're the master race, are you not?
Wonder where THAT mouth has been?
Don't drop the soap around these guys!
Ol' Gideon, he's a hoot, ain't he?
'course, although he's quite the bible moth, loves Jesus and all, he doesn't reeeaally buy into that beatiude stuff. That's a bunch of malarky, right Gideon? Just for the Rubes, not to be taken seriously.
Just think, spending an eternity with someone, hell a whole lot of someones, like Gideon. Hell or heaven, which would cause the most agony to me?
Up until a couple of years ago I passed off guys like G as passing nut jobs, but now I'm not so sure. One hears other things besides just the news.
One has read about the St. Bartholomew's Day celebration of a few centuries ago, and I have heard its memory invoked, it and Calvin's Geneva extolled in places and by people I wouldn't have expected. Apparentl some people (like G) think this would be a good thing, kind of wonder if it can be made to happen again.
The good ol' days, huh, G?
Oh yes, he's hilarious. It fascinates me what he will actually say openly without any shame.
And love is for pussies, right Gideon? Same with respect and tolerance and compassion and charity. The only people who deserve to be treated as human beings are probably 3% of the TRUE Christians in his church. The rest of his congregation are probably going to hell, because they're not REALLY saved.
It never ceases to amaze me that people like Gideon (of whatever religious persuasion) think that we would ever want to be in their heaven. Of course, their heaven is going to be hella lonely and boring as shit.
If god hates gays, atheists, liberals, and socialists, then why the hell would I want to be with a god who hates me?
One thing you won't have to worry about is an eternity ANYWHERE, Sarge...
Least of all, with me.
One thing you won't have to worry about is an eternity ANYWHERE
Wow, you're completely correct.
But neither will you. We'll all very likely cease to exist as soon as we die.
"... then why the hell would I want to be with a god who hates me?"
It's pointless trying to explain (like I've done ad nauseum) that God doesn't hate sinners, only sin, so I'll just ask why you're even worrying about something that you don't believe exists, anyway?
I'll be alive for eternity, and you'll be dead. We'll both have what we want, right?
"We'll all very likely cease to exist as soon as we die."
You'd better be sure!
"Of course, their heaven is going to be hella lonely and boring as shit."
Another example of comprehensive, analytical thought and research on the behalf of Humanism... bad spelling, notwithstanding!
Bad spelling? Where pray tell?
Gideon, the more I read what you have to say, the more I'm convinced that you secretly have some repressed homosexual fantasies. It almost never fails with your type.
Jesus had virtually nothing to say about homosexuality (in fact, I kind of wonder what his gender would have been based on the stories in your book) but he certainly never called them names.
Have you ever examined your own conscious and subconscious processes enough to figure out why you would act so defiant about gays, yet have nothing to say against bullies and tyrants - the kind of folks the Jesus of story-book fame had clear thoughts about?
"Gideon, the more I read what you have to say, the more I'm convinced that you secretly have some repressed homosexual fantasies. It almost never fails with your type."
Yes, Doctor, I do have repressed feelings, but, they are more along the line of exploits with some ex-girlfriends that I once dated... ahhh, the good old days! The days before fags became a nuisance in civil and religious matters, and trying to pervert kids in public schools. Funny... nothing is ever said about that, but, let one priest fondle an altar boy, and all hell breaks loose!
John, you really need to stop speculating about things you know nothing about. Now, I know it's just your way of fishing for information, but, it encourages bad behavior in the younger folk like KY-Jelly, here.
So, Jesus had nothing to say about homosexual perversions, eh? Well, Doctor, just who do you think the God of the Old Testament was? It was NOT God the Father, it was God the Son... Jesus, before His incarnation in human form. And, as you infidels just LOVE to point out, He called for the death of perverts and all who threatened Israel's existence and well-being.
Those same perverts threaten the moral fabric of society, and they think nothing of the psychological damage they do to young minds. They are human garbage, in my view, and deserve whatever they get. I have absolutely no respect for fags, nor will I ever. That clear enough for you, Doc?
"Have you ever examined your own conscious and subconscious processes enough to figure out why you would act so defiant about gays, yet have nothing to say against bullies and tyrants..."
Bullies and other malefactors, they step over the line, they get the same censure. I believe in freedom of expression AS LONG as there is no coercion. I may not like or even respect you guys, but, I fight for the freedom you guys have to hang yourselves.
So, go back to reading Amateur Psychologist and leave the diagnosing to those competent to do so, okay?
But wait, I was just warming up. See, I think you should ask yourself a few questions. Not for me, Gideon. It's for you! I just want you to understand yourself and your hidden motivations. It's part of the secular humanist ethos, where I actually care about you despite your attitudes.
So, did you ever have a "buddy" in high school who meant the world to you, who you seemed to want to hang out with rather than asking a girl out?
Did ever notice your dick chubbing up a bit while wrestling or playing football, and had it bother you for a few days until you concluded that it was nothing sexual but just the jock rubbing inside your gym shorts?
Were you ever in the locker room and notice a guy with a huge cock and find that your eye dwelt on it a moment, or felt some goosebumps when the guy at the next locker pulled off his jock?
Now, I really don't want you to answer these questions for me. In fact, I already know what you'll say and I don't believe you. No. I just want *you* to think about it and maybe come to some kind of peace with yourself over this gay hatred. It is, as always, all about *you*, Gideon.
John all those things you said are snares and traps that the father of lies throws out there, and if you act on them (mentally or physically) you are sinning. Humans are tempted to do alot of things, So if a person thought about what it would be like to kill someone, to know what it would be like to pull that trigger in cold blood. Would that make that right?!
God hates ALL sin, not just the big stuff. repent for your sins turn from them ask God for His forgiveness, Believe in Christ Jesus and trust Him and be saved.
You want to be gay thats fine but don't ask a christain to be fine with it. I am speaking for myself here... I am not fine with it. Because I don't want to see you or anyone eles going to HELL. I'll even be your friend, but don't be mad at me for my beliefs in what the Bible says. Also I'll share my beliefs with you as I hope that any christain would do. I will be loveing and honiest. Hell is forever. Don't be caught off guard on judgement day. May you find the true Christ and the forgiveness that God has given as a gift because he loved you.
"No. I just want *you* to think about it and maybe come to some kind of peace with yourself over this gay hatred."
You know, I always give whatever comments I receive, serious thought and consideration, just like this last one, which, is really quite snarky, but, we'll run with it...
John, listen up REAL careful-like, okay? I don't have any repression you'd like to see. I know you'd love for that to be a reality, and at the risk of fueling your entertainment even further, I'll just say that any antipathy I have for the ACT of homosexuality, doesn't translate into open aggression against fags. I know, the term fag is considered vulgar, just like nigger is for Negros, but, if they're going to use it among themselves, then it cannot be that bad, and I'll use it, too. If they want to change ideas and thinking toward themselves, then they can damn well lead by example, otherwise put up with what comes. It's hypocrisy of the highest order to criticize someone like me, when they do what they do to one another.
"It is, as always, all about *you*, Gideon."
No, it isn't. I really have no interest in talking about myself, and you can show me where I've done that, then I'll concede you're right. My views don't even come into the discussion. I do have many ideas and theories about God and Heaven, etc, but, I keep them to myself, because I cannot prove them scripturally, or, at least, with 100% accuracy. There are other places online where they do this sort of thing, and I restrict my activities of this sort to those particular places.
Every time the subject is broached, there are those, like yourself, that, when faced with incontrovertible evidence against Homosexuality, retreat into a corner crying persecution. The latest racket is, of course, the accusations of hate-mongering, where anyone expressing alternative views is accused of hateful attitudes and prejudice. Either agree with us, or else be dubbed a "hateful" person.
My advice to you, John, is to get over that. If you're gay, don't worry, I won't be hunting you down or any such thing, but, you and your friends have chosen to ridicule a faith for no good reason other than it doesn't condone your beliefs or practices, and your reasons for doing it are as highly suspect as those that you claim underlay my actions.
You need, therefore, to practice what you preach... it is, after all, NOT about you, it's about what constitutes reality, and it's reality that I deal in, not fairy tales. (No pun intended!)
Capiche?
Political-correctness (PC) is probably one, if not the greatest, threat to free speech and thought in society, today. People are not allowed to criticize the foolish, as they run roughshod over reason and restraint. It encourages those with unbalanced minds in their folly, and suppresses reason.
Now, gays are infiltrating the public school system, spreading their poison about "alternative life-styles" and further undermining the family unit, something that excess materialism has already weakened to the breaking point.
There are many groups out there professing to be such great social reformers, when the reality is they're tearing society down. Children of same-sex couples 'grow up' into confused young adults, with no clear conception of morality. They've been taught that anything is acceptable, so long as they don't hurt anyone else. Trouble is, they do hurt others by restricting their beliefs when they imagine that those beliefs interfere with their 'rights'. Their 'rights' supersede all other's, more often than not, as in the case of ministers in British Columbia...
"Fifth, will religious freedoms be protected and respected? No, they will not be. These freedoms are already disappearing. Marriage commissioners who choose not to marry homosexuals are being fired. A Knights of Columbus chapter in British Columbia is in court because it chooses not allow a lesbian group to use its facility for marriage ceremonies. The list goes on. Even the Supreme Court would not guarantee religious freedoms, so let us not lure people into thinking that the religious factor will be protected. It will not."
I, myself, respect God's law which states emphatically that all restrain themselves from harming or interfering with other's rights to live and prosper.
Some gays might learn something from that!
Thanks for stopping by, Michael.
Your god's love is conditional. It does not love everyone, which is amusing since it's supposedly responsible for people being the way it doesn't like them being. On top of that, it threatens people who don't love it with hell. How is any of that worthy of anyone's love?
There are better stories and characters out there for you to be a fan of.
---------------
Someone made you their bottom bitch once, didn't they, Gideon? Tragic events often drive people to vices like religion. It's ok, pal. There's help to be had for that. Feel free to talk it out here, but you should really find a support group in your area.
"Your god's love is conditional."
No, yours is.
And, I've never been anyone's "bottom bitch", either, though I've felt that the government has often bent me over the table! Probably an atheist in charge of that department, but, hey... I'm all for equal opportunity, especially where minorities are concerned.
Chief, you shouldn't be using disparaging remarks about women, you'll have Lorena down your back. Referring to her gender as bitches, won't give you any extra points for political-correctness.
Btw, hell isn't what you think it is, despite your professed biblical prowess. God doesn't roast anyone for eternity, only using fire for the time it takes to exterminate those threatening the eternal city in the last days. You'll simply be dead for eternity, a concept, I'm sure, you're used to by now, being of the Darwinian faith.
Don't worry, I do have a support group, but, you guys are therapy, too. Whenever I'm tempted to doubt, I merely look at what the alternative is, namely you, and I'm refreshed!
Where the hell you been hiding, anyway?
Of course my love is conditional, I'm human.
I didn't make any disparaging remarks towards women.
I have a life outside of blogging.
Gideon:
Funny... nothing is ever said about that, but, let one priest fondle an altar boy, and all hell breaks loose!
One priest? Fondle? Gideon is being deceitful.
The abused - in their own words
The sexual and physical abuse was endemic. And it gets a pass from Gideon.
"I have a life outside of blogging."
THE DEVIL YOU SAY!
LOL!
Null: I wasn't being literal... oh, forget it!
"The sexual and physical abuse was endemic. And it gets a pass from Gideon."
Opportunism in action, folks.
God still loves you no matter what, He just can't stand that you chose sin over Him. You chose Satan. If you have not accepted God and the Son, you are standing against Him. So by default being the follower of Satan. There is still hope for you. Even you PhillyChief.
I enjoy your blog. I learn more about my faith in God by your challenging words.
May God bless you and show the way.
Gideon we should still have compassion for the lost. Just becuase one group use's a word of hate does not give us the right to use it. Its still just as wrong if they use it or we do. God be with you my friend. Let the Lord lead us to do His work.
But sinning is so much more fun and rewarding!
Seriously though, how do you really know what your god can't stand or dislikes or thinks or wants or does?
You might think you know based on some collection of books that you think talks about him, but even if it does, that doesn't mean that you really know what he thinks, and you certainly have no idea what your imaginary sky-daddy thinks about me and my life.
The very concept that you or any other human knows what a supposedly infinite being thinks or wants is ridiculous. It strains credulity far past the breaking point.
Its clear in the Bible what God does not like and that He so LOVED the world that He sent His Son to save it. I never said that I know all of His plans, I just know what is written. If you believe in the Bible or not it could be true. You can test it if you want to but I am not. I am not calling names or being hateful to anyone. From time to time I do add my 2 cents. I am a sinner just like everyone else. My sin is just as bad as anyone elses as well. Are you a good person?
So, you know what he likes but don't know all his plans. Doesn't that strike you as somewhat contradictory?
Do you think your god (a supposedly infinite being) enumerated absolutely everything he likes and dislikes in full detail, in a collection of books that are self-contradictory and have been translated countless times so as to bear little resemblance to the documents they were based on - even assuming the originals were somehow "true"?
Also, it's not at all clear from the Bible that god loved anyone (or the world). The New Testament is perhaps a little clearer, but based on the Old Testament, god is a jealous, nasty, vindictive, angry, callous, illogical, capricious being - i.e. he exhibits every single one of the negative traits of the people who invented him.
And yes, I am a good person. Are you?
Hey Gideon, I like watching lesbians licking each other, especially when there are 3 or more of them getting it on in a group. In fact, I'd argue that it's a lot more fun to watch the spectacle of a group of lesbians acting like horney animals than going to church on sunday mornings.
Michael said: John all those things you said are snares and traps that the father of lies throws out there,
You reveal a lot more than I'm sure you'd like to with that, Mike.
But let's just deal with the part you intended to reveal. Honestly, dude, you are living in a fucking nightmare! And I don't want you to feel like I hate you for it - because I don't.
I feel really badly for you and others. Your brains are in chains and it's within your power to break them. You have this whole built-in mechanism that keeps you from even questioning. If someone like me tells you the truth, or if you even start to suspect it, "it's Satan trying to deceive you".
So let me challenge you - according to your own faith, you are "saved". You continue to be "saved" even if you challenge god by asking questions - even knowing the questions comes from Satan. You are not endangering you eternal soul by questioning. If worst comes to worst, you can always repent of the sin of questioning and you are right back where you were.
Take a little time and explore the notion that the 3000 year old book written by one tribe of desert people is not the infallible word of God. I'm not even asking you to consider that there is no God. Just explore your absolute certainty about your particular "knowledge" of the nature of God.
Michael, there are many ways to skin an atheist. I show my compassion in MY way. You worry about your own conduct, not mine, savvy?
You're in for a rough ride with this bunch. They have no intention of giving any ground, and, I believe most of them are quite content to be the infidels they are.
KY-Jelly's right... sinning IS more "fun" in the short term, but, there comes a time when the piper wants his money, and our young wag is still wet behind the years. As you may know, there is a time of accountability coming, and I'm focused on that, not in winning any popularity contests.
Btw, those questions they're asking you? That's how it started with me! They always start out that way, that's how they break in their God-boys. Good luck, if you choose to stay the course.
Quiff, knock yourself out. If tawdry threesomes in some dingy back alley on old mattresses floats your boat, who am I to stand in your way? Maybe you and KY can get it on in some broom closet in a bus station, somewhere, I don't know, let your imagination be the limit. All I know is there will be a day when you're going to think back to when the ol' Gid was trying to be serious with you, and, when you're staring perdition in the face, those times are going to seem awful dear to you. Don't say you weren't warned, son!
Actually, I get quite a good laugh from Gideon. I'm almost tempted to say he is a spoof. Whether he is or he isn't, thanks for the entertainment Gideon!
Heterosexually yours,
Tom
Gideon, did you know that your name sounds like a horse's hee-haw?
"Gideon, did you know that your name sounds like a horse's hee-haw?"
No. Did you know your's sounds like a new brand of douche for the 21st Century woman?
I would like to think so Gideon. By the way, does your God that you fantasize about in bed each night like to torment nonbelievers worse than this amount of pain for all eternity ? Or is the Hell that your fantasy God like to send people to contain even more torment than that?
As is plain to even the mentally-challenged, the Bible doesn't teach any form of eternal torment. That is a pagan concept, something you've embraced like a cheap skid-row whore.
There is only eternal DEATH waiting for those that VOLUNTARILY accept it, such as those that insist on believing the lies of Voltaire, Dawkins, et al.
Don't keep lying about matters you know nothing about, Quiff, it doesn't look good on even you.
So, in other words, Gideon here is saying that there is no afterlife if you're an unbeliever. When you're dead, that's it, there's nothing more, no torture nothingness.
However, I'm sure Gideon believes there are 72 horny lesbians in a large palace getting it on for all eternity if you go to heaven, specifically the ones that say "oh god" during sex.
You see, Gideon believes merely in rewards but does not believe in a punishment for sins, or perhaps the punishment is no eternal rewards. I'll take that bet, there clearly is no punishments for sin after all, I also don't believe in rewards for not sinning either, in effect Jesus was tormented on a cross so that God won't torment us for eternity like those poor animals.
It really takes the wind out their sails if they can't use hell as a threat.
Yeah Gideon! You do realize that we've been saying all along that death is the end? So you are trying to threaten us with, "hey you better bow down to my imaginary god while here on earth, otherwise death will be the end"?
Besides that, do you not see that you are exactly like the other Christians who assume a different hell, are sure *they* are right, and use the bible to back it up? In fact, most of your type of Christian disagrees with you about hell, at least to some degree - and they are sure they have "the knowledge". How come they don't? And if you were in a debate with *them* instead of us, how would you prove to them you are right?
They should put debates like that on youtube. It would sort of be like a verbal version of Bum Wars.
Gideon disagrees with Jesus:
Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[b]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matther 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Copied argument from here:
Pastor Mike's Corner: Freedom
Gideon "You're in for a rough ride with this bunch. They have no intention of giving any ground, and, I believe most of them are quite content to be the infidels they are."
Tu quoque?
Hold it! One bozo at a time, please!
That's right, Dances With Whores, there is no life for those that transgress God's law.
Chief, a minute ago, you were criticizing Christians for preaching hellfire! WTF?
John-O: Death IS the end... for infidels, IF they so choose it. And, I never said that there aren't those that claim the Christian handle that do not disagree with me. They are whores for tradition... the tradition of pagans.
Unfortunately, many of them (like you infidels) will not listen to reason, either. But, they have no more luck refuting me than you do.
That's funny Gideon, *they* think the same thing about *you*! And they're just as certain they are right! All of you are a hoot, with your doctrinal disagreements.
"I love Jesus better than you do! I love him the right way, according to *my* interpretation!"
LOL! Can't you guys all agree on something so simple as "the ultimate truth" (The Bible)? Why is there any disagreement over it? Why is there even *one* theological expert who disagrees with you - let alone thousands? And why do they disagree not just with you, but with each other?
So *puzzling*....
"LOL! Can't you guys all agree on something so simple as "the ultimate truth" (The Bible)?"
Why can't you atheists all agree on matters pertaining to infidelity? At least we all agree that there is a God. You guys can't even agree that there is no God. I've heard some here use the word "probably."
You guys were disagreeing with one another before I showed up. I can't remember what the topic was, it will be in the archives, I suppose. Your scientists are always in disagreement... and you're telling us we're contentious? C'mon, John, you're not that dumb!
The Bible is an honest book. It doesn't try and hide the failings of the patriarchs and the early believers, it faithfully records all for our benefit, so that we might learn from them. The apostles dealt with all kinds of schisms among the early believers. People are people.
Believers aren't perfect, just forgiven.
Why can't you atheists all agree on matters pertaining to infidelity?
No, I'm *not* that dumb. I'm quick enough to see a logical fallacy every time you use one.
First of all, it doesn't matter what atheists do, or don't do. One sure thing is that we aren't claiming to have hold of some "ultimate truth" - *you* are.
As you correctly point out, *we* admit to being wrong all the time. We admit it every time better empirical information comes to light. So it's not about *us* and you look silly trying to switch the burden.
But from *your* perspective, there shouldn't be so much disagreement on this "ultimate truth" and, if there is, then *any* reasonable person would ask - which one of you, who are all arguing over it, holds on to this precious commodity?
Still, your friend John, remaining so *puzzled*.
You're using that "friend" word, John.
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